Newsgroups providers liability

yeah, I know, newsgroups are not the scene, but since we have discussions about p2p here, then why not Usenet?

Anyway, I've been thinking lately whether we will have any suits against newsgroups providers in the near future, seeing that Usenet is becoming more and more popular for binary downloads.

First things first, we are talking about third party liability for copyright infringement here. THere are basically two basis for such a liability: vicarious liability, and contributory infringement.

a)vicarious liability: there are two requirements here: direct financial benefit and a right and possibility to control and supervise the infringing activity. There is a financial benefit here without any doubts. What about supervision+control though??? I'm not sure if it's technically possible for the Usenet providers to monitor what their users are downloading, can they theoretically suspend accounts if they detect some infringing activities??? if yes, then they would probably be liable under this theory (that's how Napster was found liable for example)

B)contributory infringement: here we have a requirement of knowledge (which is most likely met, the providers brag about retention, newsgroups coverage, and stuff like that) and material contribution to infringement or inducement to commit infringement. Those requirements are met too, it seems, the providers run servers, etc. It seems that they would be liable under this theory as well.

The one argument that Sony made in the famous case of Universal Pictures vs. Sony was that if a certain hardware or software (the case dealt with VCRs) was capable of substantial non-infringing use, there was no third party liability. The newsgroup providers will probably raise the same argument, after all Usenet is much more than just binary groups. But this argument was unfortunately rejected in the recent Supreme Court decision in Grokster.

I say, we will see some suits against Giganews, Easynews and the others pretty soon. Discuss if you have anything valuable to say.

I'm not sure if it's technically possible for the Usenet providers to monitor what their users are downloading, can they theoretically suspend accounts if they detect some infringing activities???

Most usenet servers will post additional header data that can let them identify who posted the article. If you're a copyright holder, you can forward the headers of posts that infringe on your copyright and the usenet provider will cancel the account.

Of course, not all providers do that.

And some dont give a shit at all. For example, there was a kiddy porn spammer that flooded nearly every fucking binary porn group for a year. Multiple people, usenet admins tried to get rid of him, but it didnt work. Usenext.de never gave a shit about their complaints.

In any case, suing usenet is retarded. They might shut down giganews or easynews, but new overseas companies will pop up to take their place. Usenet technology is as old as WWW, if not older. And bandwidth/HDD space is cheap these days.

[TheSlugg]

I am extremely suprised it has not already happened. If BT site operators that dont even host the files can be shut down, I dont see how newsgroup providers that not only provide the files, but profit off of their download can't be. If all the illegal content were to be removed off of Usenet, the premium providers would go out of buisness.

 The reason it has not is simply popularity. Downloading off of the newsgroups has a much steeper learning curve than BT or P2P. However, with the creation of the .nzb file, websites that host them, and programs that make using nzb files easy, that will soon change. I already see usenet popularity exploding.

 I give it about 2 years before usenet becomes mainstream. Then we will see the RIAA, MPAA, and others get the premium services shut down and sue the site operators for billions in lost revenue.

 Usenet will be seen as a huge pirate network by the media masses, most ISPs will drop support for it , and that will be the end of Usenet. It will Join the ranks of GOPHER and the dialup BBS.

[MtlDty]

The DMCA protects service providers.  Basically the ISPs and newsgroup providers announce that they host unregulated content. Therefore its the responsibility of the posters to maintain the law.

Thankfully this is a common sense approach, because its just unfeasable for any ISP or usenet provider to monitor such a huge userbase for illegal content.


edit: This is the kind of thing usenet providers have to provide so that the DMCA can be applied:

http://www.usenetbinaries.com/doc/Copyright.html

only losers pay $20 dollar a month to leech warez.

This whole Usenet discussion has been raised many times before.  Doesn't need a new thread; bottom line is not atm.

only losers pay $20 dollar a month to leech warez.

Well, it's a lot better than to pay $50 for EVERY game and movie. Imagine how much most people spend on software and don't have a clue about warez.
Most people are not leet and don't even know what it means to be leet. So for them it's a great way.

only losers pay $20 dollar a month to leech warez.

You signed up to a warez forums just to preach your morals?? or was it just for the general forums?? perhaps you just dont know how to use newsgroups and have a little sand in your vagina due to the fact that your missing out??

You signed up to a warez forums just to preach your morals?? or was it just for the general forums?? perhaps you just dont know how to use newsgroups and have a little sand in your vagina due to the fact that your missing out??

LOL, i can get anything i want without having to pay extra $20/month to sign up with some usenet provider.  So how are you superior again?

[TheVirus]

Drop it. Take it to PMs. Any further off-topic discussion will result in bans.

[Overblast]

Well done, you killed the thread ;(

Edit: I agree that newsgroups are a great source !
(Covering myself from TheVirus there;))

[g]

The whole law is retarded.
Copyrighted material should not be distributed in any way, and these DMCA laws that protect usenet providers and bittorrent websites is lame.

Of course the usenet providers are liable, they sell binary newsgroups of which 99% of use is dedicated to illegal and copyrighted material.
Bittorrent websites should also be shut down, as they are liable simply because they KNOW they distribute warez.

We should have a law that prohibits any kind of distribution of warez, regardless of how it is distributed, whether directly or indirectly.
But yeah, the world is retarded so what can one expect.

MPAA sues newsgroup, P2P search sites
http://tinyurl.com/pmok5

The Motion Picture Association of America said Thursday that it sued a new round of popular Web sites associated with movie piracy, including several that serve as search engines but do not distribute files themselves.

The lawsuits mark an expansion of the copyright holders' legal strategy in the file-swapping world, targeting sites that help make downloading easier, but aren't actually delivering the files or the swapping technology themselves.

It's also the first time the group has sued organizations that direct their members to the Usenet newsgroup system, an MPAA spokeswoman said. The movie group makes little distinction between a peer-to-peer network and the search engines that point to pirated works, saying that all facilitate the distribution of copyright works.

oops

Hmm, piracy is too tempting, you cannot escape The Call of Juarez.